Recent Chat with Seth at BofA regarding fees. - Bank of America Account Fees Discussions on Bank Of America Sucks : Official Bank of America consumer opinion site :

BostonBusinessBanker

Typical BofA Run Around....They haven't stopped with the fees.

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Ron: Hello, my name is Ron. Thank you for choosing Bank of America chat service. I'm here to assist you with your personal accounts today. May I have your complete name as it appears on your bank statement?
You: I Ron, I'm trying to figure out how BofA managed to take 280 dollars of overdraft fees from me over the holoday
You: Maybe you can help explain this robbery
You: ;)
Ron: I absolutely understand your concern regarding overdraft fees. I thank you for providing me an opportunity to assist you.
Ron: May I have your complete name as it appears on your bank statement?
You: When looking at my account I see -35.00 next to a positive balance, so you can understand my confusion
You: (Name As Is Appears on Bank Statement)
Ron: Thank you, (Name)
Ron: Let me quickly check that for you.
Ron: I see that the account you referred to is a Business account.
Ron: I apologize for the inconvenience; I specialize in personal savings and checking accounts alone, and do not have access to Business accounts.
You: yes
Ron: As you are a valued Bank of America Customer, I would be more than happy to connect you to specialist for Business accounts who would be delighted to assist you with your concerns right away. Would you like me to connect the chat session now?
You: yes..thx
Please wait while I transfer the chat to the best suited Bank of America Specialist.
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Seth: Hello! Thank you for being a valued Bank of America customer! My name is Seth.
Seth: Welcome to online chat session, (Name)
Seth: Please allow me a moment to go through the previous conversation.
Seth: I understand as how a fee would cause a concern.
Seth: Let me check that for you.
You: Yeah A fee is a problem anytime...but 8 fees
Seth: Would you like me to explain you the reason for the fee to be charged to your account or are you aware of it?
You: I understand we may have gone negative..a check that was supposed to have gone through thursday didn't ..most likely because of the holiday..but I'm having trouble seeing why there are eight fee's even after looking at how did this occur
You: It seems to me that BofA puts charges through in the order that generates the most fees
You: i mean it's clear
You: you put the largest amount through and then the rest generate fees
You: no matter the order the charges actually accor..
You: occur
You: because you keep them as processing for days on end
You: or is this a "feature" of having an account with BofA
Seth: During nightly processing, we process all credits before we present any debits to the account. All debits are then processed from the highest dollar amount to the lowest dollar amount, according to the transaction type, even if they create a negative balance.
Seth: Based on our experience, we believe that many customers prefer that we place priority on their largest transactions when the balance in their account cannot cover all their transactions. This may enable us to pay more important items, such as mortgage or car payments.
You: really, they prefer 8 fees as opposed to one bounced check? I don't prefer that....how do i turn this feature off
Seth: There is no option to turn off this feature as it is the standard method of processing the transactions
You: I thought Bank of America was done with this BS....it's the only reason I stuck it out with you guys. $280 dollars...I mean I already don't have the money, so you take more???
You: look I know you're not a spokesman, but really
Seth: How can i help you with this
You: I see 7 red negatives on my online balance sheet...I have 8 fees.
Seth: I will help you with the steps to view online as what caused the fee
You: already did..I'm looking at
You: can you look at the same page and explain it to me
Seth: Sure
You: statement balance and available balance why are they different
Seth: Please keep the following information in mind when reviewing your account balances.
Seth: The first balance you notice is the available balance on the Accounts Overview screen. This balance can be updated during a business day with normal electronic or branch transactions. The available balance is the same information that appears on your ATM balance inquiry receipt. Your available balance will also be displayed on the Bill Pay Center page, or on the Pay From page.
You: is a statement balance what I actually have, but my available balance it what B of A says I can use?
Seth: A running balance for each item processed and the end-of-day ledger balance is shown on Account Activity sub-tab, on the Account Details page. The ledger balance is all cash, checks and other items deposited to your account, minus all withdrawals and checks paid against the account. The ledger balance does not include any transactions outstanding that have not yet been presented to the bank. The ledger balance shown is current as of the previous business day.
Seth: Please note that the Account Details page will show both your available balance and your ledger balance. The available balance is located on the top left of the screen. The ledger balance is shown on the Account Activity sub-tab.
You: Why do I get charged fees on transactions not presented to the bank? for instance on 11/23 I see a statement balance of 352...but an avail balance of -63
Seth: Let me help you with the details
Seth: I see from the records that the available on November 22 was $1,008.79
You: sure
Seth: against which I see there were 7 transactions reflecting as processing and other 8 transactions posted to your account.
You: yup
Seth: The available balance was not enough to cover the posted transactions hence 4 fee was assessed.
You: the statement balance was..
Seth: on further review
Seth: November 23 the available balance in account was $339.92 to which I see that there were one transaction reflecting as processing and 8 other transactions
You: how do I end up with a positive ending balance after fees were triggered on the same day...??
Last text message receivedSeth: To avoid this in future you can set up overdraft protection alerts and check registers.
You: I think I have a better way of avoiding this in the future Seth...thanks for answering all my questions in such an honest and straightforward manner.

bofasux

You are better off with a new bank, there are still banks out there that offer free checking to for business accounts. Good Luck.

fromindia

Teensy

I thought they were limiting the number of fees per day, and I thought the fee was much much lower, like $10. I feel like I just stepped into a time machine. Maybe the lowering and limiting of fees was just an experiment, and they've gone back to business as usual. I can't believe that people are still putting up with this crap. They will tell you that largest to smallest is the way everyone does it, but it's not true. Only banks who really do not care about their customers do it this way. The credit union processes credits first, then debits in the order in which they occurred.

BossMan

As has been said over, and over and over, and will be said again, and in the future. It doesn't matter one iota in what order items are paid as long as you don't spend or authorize more than you have. As long as you keep track of your balance, keep track of your items, monitor your account etc., you will not incur fees. As has been said here before in the past, and will be said again, take a pile of money of various denominations, throw it up in the air, no matter what order it comes down, it's still $100.

Fees on the consumer side are capped at 4 fees per day on items that qualify for fees. The only items that get fees are paper checks, electronic checks and recurring debit card transactions. At BofA at least, all other items get a pass. Fees are and have been $35 per item for a long, long time. What this guy here experienced was "signature debit" which again, for a long, long time has been detailed over and over again. There is ledger balance (how much you have in the bank) and an "available balance" (how much is truly available after all your pending debit card authorizations have been accounted for.

If you have $100 in the bank, and authorize an ATM Debit for $40 at Target, you have $100 in the bank until TARGET comes in to collect. Your available balance is $70. If a check for $75 that you gave someone for Christmas comes in tonight, the consequence is you have $100 in the bank, that is your ledger balance. Only $60 is available due to the ATM/Debit card transactions YOU authorized. The bank will pay the item and charge you $35 because all banks pay on available balance. When you look at your online banking page it will reflect a balance of $100 a deduction of $60 and a fee for $35. If you click on HOW DID THIS FEE OCCUR or on the link AVAILABLE BALANCE HISTORY it will show you the pending transactions that were affecting your balance and explain the fee in English or if you prefer Spanish.

YOU are the one that didn't tally your outstanding checks correctly. YOU are the one that authorized your card while you had outstanding checks. You are the one that screwed up. You are the one that got the fee(s) that were valid.

Halleck

Some banks do it the B of A way and others do it in a more ethical fashion. Why stay at B of A?

BossMan

Most banks do it the same way, but of course you missed the point. If you don't spend more than what you have, if you keep track or your transactions and know simple 3rd grade math, if you are not illiterate or just use common sense, if you take the personal responsibility to monitor your account (Example "Gee online banking says I have $100, let's see do I have any outstanding checks that have not come in, or any recurring debits--before I use my friggin card for $90) you won't have fees!

They don't! Clueless customers don't. They tell you they want to transfer $20 from their savings to their "checking-s" account and then have the rep do the math of $10 + $20!! Or call and ask "how come I only gots $13 when last week I had $100.." And the rep asks them if they reviewed their transactions and they tell you, "no cuz I ain't got time but last week the ATM said I had $100.."

They will get fees, they will deserve the fees and the fees are valid. BofA has not charged fees on debit card transactions since Aug of 2011 but these guys just keep giving out their routing numbers and account numbers to everyone, write checks without any money, and withdraw money from the ATM before their outstanding checks have cleared and say it's the bank's fault. Oh really??

The Bank is a business. It's there to make a profit so it can provide services and security to customers and can reimburse all our clueless customers for the countless fraudulent transactions they say they have not authorized because they were too clueless to know what they were doing.

We are a business and we will make a profit, we will be the best, and we will provide products and services to more Americans than any other bank, whether all of you, individually or collectively, like it or not!

Halleck

Actually, you are missing the point.

In a world of choices, where I can bank anywhere, I would chose the institution that earns my business. That's democratic capitalism (as opposed to bail out scenarios that keep insolvent, customer insensitive entities like B of A gimping along). The bank that operates in good faith, that gives polite and respectful service, that saves me money while it also profits, etc is most likely to get my loyal business. Why would I choose the opposite?

Teensy

"...and can reimburse all our clueless customers for the countless fraudulent transactions they say they have not authorized because they were too clueless to know what they were doing."

Ladies and gentlemen, what Bank of America employees really think of their customers.

It must be true that their customers are clueless, since anyone with half a brain knows they can get better service and less BS elsewhere.

BossMan

Try to find another institution that does not assess fees for debit card transactions--BofA does not. Try to find another institution that gives their customers 4 full months to bring their account current before they close it, without getting another fee--unless they (the customer) keep writing checks and authorizing ACH transactions and yes, allows these transactions to hit their account--because they are clueless.

Polite service? I personally walked out 3 associates that after a period of 3 months of coaching and prodding could not provide the high level of courtesy that we demand of our associates--none of these were offensive to a customer in any way--none of them hung up on a customer, they just could not adapt to the standards we have---they were relatively new hires and we would not get any where with them. They're gone.

BofA has is hiring more than any other bank--around the country--and setting the highest standards it ever has on courtesy and service (which have always been high to begin with). And we may receive 500 appplications for a call center, filter that down to 50 to interview to hire 20 for a new hire class!

You two are not customers, you two are clueless as to the reality of banking and Bank of America--and you do not deserve the respect of any Bank of America associate--but if you were customers, you'd get it--you'd get the respect and the service! You are the type that just have hatred deep within you and your glass is always half empty.

As to what we think of customers-we can personally think whatever we want and for the most part--the ones that call--I would say are clueless. Most of the calls are totally unnecessary. We can and do think whatever we want--we do not relate it to the customer. We strive to make sure our associates treat them as the the most important call of the day--thats why we continue to be in over 1 out of every 2 households, and that is why we open more accounts than we close. And that is what every year when its tax season, and they need accounts to have their IRS Refunds deposited into they choose us, again and again, even though when they need to open an account and don't go to some local podunk bank that can't provide the level of service or convenience--and it's that way with most large banks!--As to our fee structure, go to the sites that compare products, We still have a totally FEE FREE checking account and these days most other banks, do not!

As for "deadbeats" yeah I still feel that for the most part. They CountryWide loan officers were con artists that worked with dead beat con artists mortgage brokers and real estate agents and gave stated loans with high balloon interest rates to customers that did not deserve the loans to begin with! DEADBEATS.

Yes, bad things happen to good people but for the most part, people that bought homes did not deserve them nor did they have the financial ability to maintain them. Legacy BofA did not due B paper loans--this is a CountryWide issue and finally, finally, the press is being honest about it. Finally it is starting to mention the source of the woes--CountryWide.

These customers have stayed in their homes for upwards of 2 years, worked in a cash environment, hidden their income and have not paid a single payment for upwards of over 2 years. Others, and I know of some peronally--have supposedly rented out their homes, supposedly have leases, buy larger homes for less, and leave the banks holding the bag on supposedly rented homes they have now walked away from! Deadbeats!

And yes a lot of customers are clueless about their accounts, clueless about their finances, clueless about how to spend money or how to avoid overdrafts and if it wasn't for the fact that BofA only applies fees to paper checks and recurring electronic items--they would have far, far, far more fees than what they have. And have far less overdraft fees than they would incur at other institutions whether they be a bank or a credit union! In fact when they open their accounts--they get most of their fees, if not all, waived for the first 90 days without question. Even the reasons reflect the hidden truth" Did not understand" and "Did no know functionality" or "Was not aware of account Details" etc., LOL. Even if they had accounts they botched and abused, and closed and opened another one--they get a pass on most fees for the first 90 days of overdrafts--fee after fee. No other bank does that, do they? Not even these credit unions.

And as I've said before. Most of the calls we receive are NOT NECESSARY at all---you don't have to be on hold for 2 minutes or 10 minutes or whatever, to find out your balance, and go through question after question of authentication, the same questions you are asked every time you call, and stumble over every time you call because YOU don't know how many and what types of accounts you have, or because YOU don't know what a checking account and a savings account are two separate accounts--you dont have to go through all that and when the automated (or as they call it--the ANIMATED) system tells you, "for information on a single account enter your card or account number.." How HARD can that be????

But regardless of what each of our associates thinks, or doesn't, think we will not rush that customer, we will not be condescending, and we will make them feel like their issue was the most important---and if an associate cannot do that--and if that associate call is listened to, and if that associate has been coached and monitored before on the same issues, they will be gone. There is no tolerance. And as I've said I've personally walked them out the door.

BossMan

Oh before I forget, the OP that spoke to RONon the chat--is either clueless or a con artist. He knew and knows exactly why he was overdrawn, he just came here to copy/paste a chat session and get all the other clueless wonders to buy in on it. Hey BostonBizBanker---you used your card while you had outstanding transactions that had not yet cleared and you authorized your business debit card for more than you had available. On the consumer side that would not have happened! But you're supposed to be a bit more than clueless on the Biz side since youre a BIZ person you're supposed to be a bit more responsible I'd assume.

Teensy

"Try to find another institution that does not assess fees for debit card transactions--BofA does not."

Mine doesn't, and it never has, unlike BoA, which tired it and then backed down when accounts started closing by the hundreds of thousands. They also don't have a stated policy of not assessing fees for up to 90 days, because they already have a business model that does not require them to generate a lot of fees, (they don't have to make a profit), and practices that keep the customer from getting into trouble in the first place, like making funds transferred from savings to checking available to cover transactions immediately, 24/7, instead of playing hide-the-money with a ridiculous set of rules meant to create gaps for fees to occur.

"You two are not customers, you two are clueless as to the reality of banking and Bank of America--and you do not deserve the respect of any Bank of America associate--but if you were customers, you'd get it--you'd get the respect and the service!"

No, see, I didn't get that respect and service, and that's why I left. My credit union doesn't use a call center. When I call, I talk to someone who works at the bank, and has worked there for some time. Not some college kid who was just hired to answer the phone. I think I'm pretty clued in to the reality of banking from the customer standpoint, which is all I'm required to know.

"Yes, bad things happen to good people but for the most part, people that bought homes did not deserve them nor did they have the financial ability to maintain them."

Wouldn't a lender be in an even better position to judge what a person can and cannot afford? Aren't they in the business of doing just that with credit scoring, and requiring proof of income, etc? Oh, that's right, they threw all that out the window and blindly approved the loans. They told the buyers that they were credit-worthy and gave them the money. If I loan my bicycle to some kid on my block whom I don't even know, and I never see it again, you would think I was an idiot, right?

The only argument I have ever heard in favor of BoA was the availability of ATMs. I guess since I don't pay a fee for my account and I never get fees for anything else, I don't mind ATM fees. It's a small price to pay for the exceptional quality of service, which, I assure you, is far better than your McBank, and I say this as a customer experienced with both institutions. How can you argue with that?

BossMan

Well when I said "does not assess fees for debit card transactions" I mean overdraft fees--that was my error. YOu can overdraft your account and you will not get a single fee for an overdraft on everyday debit card transactions. BofA stopped that in August of 2010. Other banks still do. And since those overdrafts no longer generate a fee--they will not get a fee either if they are overdrawn for more than 5 days--not those transactions. And no you won't find that at many other banks or credit unions.

As for the $5 monthly fee BofA never said it would assess that. What happened was that in July of 2011 after Wells had started charging the fee FIRST and then CHASE and other banks had already done it for a few months BofA announced way ahead of time that sometime during the end of the 1st Qtr of 2012 it would perhaps begin to run a pilot in 1 or 2 states and depending on how that would go may or may not implement across the board by the end of 2012. May, perhaps...and it never did nor did.

Yes there was an outcry but BofA was not the first (or the last) and yes BofA said no we won't and then all the other banks followed suit and says no they won't but BofA being the biggest got all the notariety for considering it after the other had implemented it and got almost no press on saying "no, we won't--its not a good idea." Those clueless wonders again see a fee of $35 for an overdraft and call to ask if its because we are charging "a quaterly fee for using a card!"

What you stated about loans and loan officers is correct--it is their duty to determine if someone can do it--and BANKOFAMERICA always has. Even associates have been told they did not qualify for a loan--did not automatically get one--but we are talking about Bank of America. The culprits were CountryWIde not BofA--but for some reason i'll never understand Ken Lewis made the decision to buy CountryWide and get a customer base no one else had and probably CountryWide just showed the tip of the iceberg. And no one knew.

Its like my parents bought an 82 Camaro with 88,000 original miles that had been garaged for years for my 18 yo brother a couple of years ago and of course once the car started running and running hard, 22 year old hoses and parts etc., had gone bad whether there was wear and tear or not, and it cost them another $2000 in parts alone. It was the unhidden tip of an iceberg on something that looked good on first look.

As for rules of hide the money and hidden policies for fees--cut the crap, Teensy. There are no hidden fees or rules--unlike Obama BofA is very transparent. The fees and ways youd get them and way to avoid them are there in every publication, on every statement and on online banking. When you're overdrawn and see a fee and click on it--up pops "how did this occur?" Which takes you to acocunt/transaction history and shows you exacty what happene with that fee--bottom line you spent more than you had and never kept track of what you spent! But the clueless wonders still call the reps with "I'm looking online and I see all these things in red but I don't know why I'm "overwithdrawed" and have " inefficient fees" --come on!! At least READ it correctly when you see it--it says insufficient not inefficient but I guess thats a better term for it!

As for the efficiency or quality of service at a credit union (bank on training wheels)--don't make me laugh. How often has a rep fielded a call from a credit union manager who has no clue what to do with an item that is drawn on his credit union and has been processed at BofA and returned for something as simple as a wrong account number or routing number that was entered by THEIR customer on THEIR online banking to pay a BofA Credit Card or Mortgage?

BofA returns the item with "unable to locate account" and the manager of the credit union says to the rep, "but our customer SAID they put in the correct account number--BofA must have changed it when it got to them!.." LOL...Shameless credit union managers who have no idea how stupid they come across!
Ya get what you pay for,Teensy! You "Say" you pay nothing and Im sure you get nothing in return!
Like I stated BofA never did B paper loans--it was always "harda$$" on granting loans--hard to qualify for but had a great rates when you did qualify and had a good loan portfolio--sold very few if any loans. Then along came CountryWide and the rest is history--at least be honest about it.

Teensy

I never said it wasn't Countrywide. YOU keep harping on that. Yes, we know it was Countrywide. I only brought it up because you started hammering on the old "deadbeat" canard. Some idiot gave those "deadbeats" loans. Told them they were creditworthy, not to worry. Actually, it was more cynical than just plain idiocy. They were making a ton of money getting people into serious trouble. They were incentivized to convince people that they could handle loans that they absolutely could not. It wasn't idiocy, it was pure evil. So were they deadbeats, or just naive? Whatever the case, there sure were a lot of them, so what does that say about America? None of this, by the way, excuses or refutes the multiple accounts (here and in the news) of BoA doing a horrible job of modification.

The specific example I gave of "hide-the-money" is true. Sure, the rules are transparent, but there are an overwhelming number of them (on purpose), and you would never have reason to pay attention to that particular rule until it applies to you. Say, for example, you know you have a car payment that is going to drop out on Monday. It's Sunday night, you're getting ready for the week, and you want to make sure everything is in order. You sit down at your computer and you notice that your balance is a little lower in your checking account than you thought, but no problem, you have the money in your savings account. You go to make a transfer from your savings account into your checking (same bank! shouldn't be a problem!), but it's too late. You are reminded of the rule, if indeed you ever read about it in the first place, but there is nothing you can do about it. You are going to get a fee, even though you are not a deadbeat. You have enough money. You attempted to cover the ACH, but because of this stupid, unnecessary rule that exists only to create a gap for mistakes to happen, you will get a fee. This is what I'm talking about. They don't play this game at the credit union or at European banks or at ING in the US. Money transferred within their walls, is money transferred. You can even transfer money to another customer within the same bank, instantly, in all three examples. This is what I care about as a customer. You can call them "banks on training wheels," or the charming "baby banks in diapers," but I am the customer. I know what matters to ME. And I have had better customer service by miles. So what if the manager calls and has no clue (and I'm not acquiescing that this is even true). HE CALLED. You can say what you want, but there is no way in hell your CSRs are working that hard. In most cases, you can't even get to a manager. Talk about being honest...

BofARepMark

There are rules everywhere, Geico says you need to make a payment by midnite or your due date to avoid a late fee or worse. Their systems are on the east coast, I'm in Cali. I make it at 9:55 and its 12:55 am on the east and I'm late---rules.

You want to be transparent, well ok do Overdraft Protection so that if you foget to do the transfer then right at midnight the system will move over for ya and prevent all those $35 fees and you can go to bed without a worry. But even now BofA has gone above and beyond (and this isnt new its about 18 months old or more--and says that if you don't make the deposit by cutoff time you have an extended cutoff time to avoid fees.

Works like this; lets say you can't make a deposit at an ATM by 8PM or you forget to make the transfer by 10:45 Eastern ( and youre in Cali) to have it included in that days processing. Well you have until 11:59 PM to make a deposit at an ATM or make a transfer online to avoid fees. NOTICE I SAID AVOID FEES. Not the overdraft. But LQQK at what I mean!

You have until 8PM to make a deposit at an ATM or 10:45 Eastern to transfer funds online to have them available to cover items that come in tonight. OK.

However if you make that transfer by 11:59PM YOUR LOCAL TIME or 11:59 PM your local time at an ATM, the account will be overdrawn but won't get fees. The bank can't physically process that deposit until the next day cuz logistically it after cutoff time, BUT--it takes into consideration that you've made the deposit or transfer by 11:59 and calculates that amount as whats "available" to pay and gives you a "pass" on the overdraft fee.

Yes the account logistically registers an overdraft, but the system gives you a pass on all the fees because technically the Bank had the funds. Afterall its all about the fees right? No other bank (that I know of) does this.

Teensy

Mine does, and it doesn't have all those crazy rules about transfers within the same bank. That's some BoA BS. Just admit it. It's stupid.

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