Fraud Claim Denied b/c eService had correct CVN & I had

[valerie]

I can't believe what just happened to my husband. BofA reversed a $900+ claim of unauthorized transactions that someone made online at Google. Over 50% of the $900 amount were fees that resulted days AFTER the fraud was reported to Bofa and it occurred because they paid another transaction for $190 after we reported the card to them. He did everything they told him to do and even followed up when the claim documents didn't arrive after 2.5 weeks. He faxed/signed the docs, etc. to then find the claim immediately closed and provisional funds reversed for this reason:

> Being that the card was used online for authorized transactions in the past, the cardholder gave it away and compromised his own security. What? Are they being for real?
> Merchant was provided the number from the back of your card and you had the card, so it can't be fraud. That number isn't a PIN. Every merchant on the internet requires that number for Verification purposes when an order is placed. I have entered that number in dozens of sites for every card that I own and none of the sites would allow checkout w/out the correct number entered. Even BofA's merchant services (as well as every Merchant bank out there) provides the merchant better rates, if the CVN is validated online, as well as the address. As a result, the number is no secret code (like a PIN). It's pretty much part of the card number when using a card online. If you've shopped online or even signed up for any service via the Internet in the last 10 years, then you were likely forced to enter that number to place the order.
> If this is fraud, then the victim should have contacted the merchant. What? He *did* contact the merchant after BofA asked him if he had contacted the merhcant, but he didn't follow-up w/the merchant because another transaction and $400+ in NSF posted. He didn't want to risk losing the money to BofA by waiting too much time. He also didn't want to risk a final $190 transaction that caused $400+ in NSF fees. If the merchant reversed the transactions, then BofA would have a reason to blame the merchant while refusing to refund the fees. BofA could have blocked the transaction. The transaction and the fees debited *AFTER* he contacted BofA about the fraud, and *AFTER* he first tried to contact the merchant. Once the account went negative with more taken by BofA in fees than the actual fraud, it no longer made any sense to contact the merchant because it caused a chain reaction of problems w/the BofA account. Had they blocked the transaction or had some compassion over the fees, we would have gone to the merchant. Their system no longer shows pending check card authorizations online so he wasn't aware of the debits until it was too late but he had already contacted BofA before the final transaction posted.

I know the merchant (who has obviously been harmed too) is not going to pay money they didn't collect. Why should they? I would never expect a company who has also been victimized to pick up the other victim's NSF that occurred due to fraud. My husband was forced to file a chargeback to prevent BofA from keeping the fraudulant fees, and he asked a lot of questions before he filed that chargeback. He was told he could not be held responsible if he didn't make the purchases, and at the time of filing, BofA told him that the merchant received the corrrect number from the back of the card, but they didn't act like this was unusual because the card has been used extensively online over many years. However, they're now saying that it's his fault because he has used his card on the Internet and gave his personal information away. We don't even know what this person purchased with the card or how this person got the card details, but apparently, that doesn't matter. It's ridiculous. This will teach people not to use their card online because BofA doesn't protect you from fraud if your an internet user.

Also, BofA told us that they would monitor our account for 14 days to ensure additional transactions don't post, and they would auto-refund any fees that resulted from any additional unauthorized debits that may still post from that moment forward. That was a total lie. They had no problem taking fees once an additional debit posted, and had no problem paying the same exact merchant again. They also refused to work with us on the fees and at the time, they said we needed to file a chargeback for fraud.

Why would BofA do this? Is BofA liable and therefore trying to push the loss back on the victim(s)? It makes no sense.

[trustus_yeahright]

I can't believe what just happened to my husband. BofA reversed a $900+ claim of unauthorized transactions that someone made online at Google. Over 50% of the $900 amount were fees that resulted days AFTER the fraud was reported to Bofa and it occurred because they paid another transaction for $190 after we reported the card to them. He did everything they told him to do and even followed up when the claim documents didn't arrive after 2.5 weeks. He faxed/signed the docs, etc. to then find the claim immediately closed and provisional funds reversed for this reason:

> Being that the card was used online for authorized transactions in the past, the cardholder gave it away and compromised his own security. What? Are they being for real?
> Merchant was provided the number from the back of your card and you had the card, so it can't be fraud. That number isn't a PIN. Every merchant on the internet requires that number for Verification purposes when an order is placed. I have entered that number in dozens of sites for every card that I own and none of the sites would allow checkout w/out the correct number entered. Even BofA's merchant services (as well as every Merchant bank out there) provides the merchant better rates, if the CVN is validated online, as well as the address. As a result, the number is no secret code (like a PIN). It's pretty much part of the card number when using a card online. If you've shopped online or even signed up for any service via the Internet in the last 10 years, then you were likely forced to enter that number to place the order.
> If this is fraud, then the victim should have contacted the merchant. What? He *did* contact the merchant after BofA asked him if he had contacted the merhcant, but he didn't follow-up w/the merchant because another transaction and $400+ in NSF posted. He didn't want to risk losing the money to BofA by waiting too much time. He also didn't want to risk a final $190 transaction that caused $400+ in NSF fees. If the merchant reversed the transactions, then BofA would have a reason to blame the merchant while refusing to refund the fees. BofA could have blocked the transaction. The transaction and the fees debited *AFTER* he contacted BofA about the fraud, and *AFTER* he first tried to contact the merchant. Once the account went negative with more taken by BofA in fees than the actual fraud, it no longer made any sense to contact the merchant because it caused a chain reaction of problems w/the BofA account. Had they blocked the transaction or had some compassion over the fees, we would have gone to the merchant. Their system no longer shows pending check card authorizations online so he wasn't aware of the debits until it was too late but he had already contacted BofA before the final transaction posted.

I know the merchant (who has obviously been harmed too) is not going to pay money they didn't collect. Why should they? I would never expect a company who has also been victimized to pick up the other victim's NSF that occurred due to fraud. My husband was forced to file a chargeback to prevent BofA from keeping the fraudulant fees, and he asked a lot of questions before he filed that chargeback. He was told he could not be held responsible if he didn't make the purchases, and at the time of filing, BofA told him that the merchant received the corrrect number from the back of the card, but they didn't act like this was unusual because the card has been used extensively online over many years. However, they're now saying that it's his fault because he has used his card on the Internet and gave his personal information away. We don't even know what this person purchased with the card or how this person got the card details, but apparently, that doesn't matter. It's ridiculous. This will teach people not to use their card online because BofA doesn't protect you from fraud if your an internet user.

Also, BofA told us that they would monitor our account for 14 days to ensure additional transactions don't post, and they would auto-refund any fees that resulted from any additional unauthorized debits that may still post from that moment forward. That was a total lie. They had no problem taking fees once an additional debit posted, and had no problem paying the same exact merchant again. They also refused to work with us on the fees and at the time, they said we needed to file a chargeback for fraud.

Why would BofA do this? Is BofA liable and therefore trying to push the loss back on the victim(s)? It makes no sense.

you can guess how most people feel by the name of the site. What they are doing is wrong i think. Can they get away with it, maybye. You could always write to the office of the comptroller of the currency and see if they do anything. I have seen cases were the customer was clearly wrong but bitched loud enough and got their way. Not to say you are wrong, but just an idea, I would cancel the account. I have had similar issues with discover and never had a problem with fraud. I would tell everyone you know of this. Boa may change its policies if enough people are pissed off.........................

[valerie]

Here's something odd..

Right ater I posted this thread, BofA refunded $400+ in fees to my husband's checking account. There's no explanation or anything, but I found that really strange. If someone read my post, then thank you for doing the right thing. Although, the payments to Google are still paid under the account.

Now, we don't know whether to file another chargeback , like an appeal, or follow-up w/Google directly. Perhaps, we should do both.

[BOACSRep]

Yes Valerie, because based on the lack of any and all personal information we could obtain about an anonymous poster, we decided to rectify it due to a post here.

It's simple, you probably in your rash misheard what they said. Not like that never happens.

Me: Yes, m'am I just need a few moments and I can get that account linked.

Lady: Why can't you people do anything. This is so frustrating, you are all morons.

Me: Um...m'am, I just said I can fix this for you just give me a few moments.

Lady: Oh.

Another case of people just expecting the worst and just want to start yelling before giving someone a chance.

[valerie]

Hmm...

Seems you're guilty of being stupid too.

Obviously, you suffer from the same problem as your stupid customers. You should slow down, read, think, process, breath, read it out loud, take a break, and then post once you're sure that you're not guilty of your own accusations or assumptions. This would not be the first time you've posted here without thinking, and you certainly haven't learned anything from past mistakes.

Obviously, you are suffering from a comprehension problem.
Perhaps, I can help you understand... Let's see…

1. Message started with "oddly...". That's sarcasm.
2. If you're really a BofA CSR, then I'm sure you know that BofA doesn't jump up and refund $400+ in fees w/out a fight, and they definitely don't reverse a decision on a whim because it crossed someone's mind.
3. When I posted, it had been days since we spoke w/BofA, and we were told the claim was closed. To reopen the claim, we were told to appeal it with a detailed statement about how every merchant on the Internet requires a CVN and why that's not our fault... We didn't have time to do that yet.
4. We have TWO letters from BofA stating the reason for the claim's reversal. In disbelief, we called BofA 3 times to confirm the letter's content because we naturally assumed it was a mistake.
5. I said "if someone..., then thank you.." That's, in the off chance, that someone read my post who also spoke w/us or reviewed the claim, then I just wanted to extend my appreciation. I realize customers don't do that for you very often, but I'm a grateful for any assistance and prefer to say "thanks".
6. My post was an update to this thread about my negative experience w/BofA. My update showed a positive act on BofA's part. It shows action on BofA's part which doesn't involve taking money away from a customer. Sadly, you just turned my positive update into something extremely negative. Go figure. Now, if anyone reads this and thinks that BofA isn't a bad bank w/poor customer service, then they have your intelligent, commonly written and extremely helpful post to read in follow-up. If you were smart, you would know the positive follow-up was a good update to a negative experience. Good reps know the difference between a positive & negative comment, and certainly wouldn't slam a grateful customer who said BofA did the right thing (while that customer also took time to update a negative experience).
7. We called 3 times w/in one afternoon to 3 different offices to confirm our claim's status and reason for its reversal. We have TWO letters confirming this reason too. They broke the claim into two different claims, so we received 2 letters w/the same reason.
8. I didn't realize this type of issue was SO COMMON at Claims on the West Coast (centralized in AZ now) that the few investigators would confuse this situation w/the 100s of other buyers being screwed for the same BS reason when someone's debit card was used illegally on Google's site. All 3 CSRs acted like a card's CVN is some kind of top secret code and two of 3 reps couldn't believe any site would ask for that code over the Internet.
9. Strangely, within minutes of this post, I noticed 70+ hits to this page, and then another 40 within 3 hours, plus a group of "guest" visitors suddenly appearing, so I thought "maybe" and if so, good.... By that evening, the credits appeared. If anything, you can at least admit that it's strange for BofA to suddenly give back money that the bank took in so-called "justified" NSF on transactions that couldn't possibly be fraud.
10. There have been many CSRs post here that claim to be the representative who spoke w/a poster at this board (while at work), and also many CSR who claim that customers will call back over and over, expecting a different result (while every supervisor and staff member on every single floor is laughing about the customer). Small world, ehh?

You obviously get some kind of twisted gratification off of other people's stress... I find it interesting because you support BofA sucks and prove the site's claim about BofA's lack of CS.

Anyways, why so defensive over my little ol' post on the big www, which is equivalent to absolutely nothing in the big picture at BofA? Believe it or not, you're even more dispensable than a customer is at BofA. Actually, since you are only overhead, you're an even smaller speck in the world of BofA.

[BOACSRep]

Because it is a hobby of mine to belittle people I hate.

[chelsea1088]

Honestly whomever started this thread (I forget ur forum name) I loved your reply to that moronic customer service guy! If he really works for Bank of America it is no wonder why so many people have problems with BoA. It is really sad that someone like that would have control over one of the most important things a person has, their money. Also before anyone jumps on me for saying money is the most important thing realize I say that as a working paycheck to paycheck student so it is pretty damned important when all the money I make needs to go to rent.

[toyotatundra]

Let me tell you what happened with Bank of America. I was in jail for 90 days after getting in a car with someone I knew, little did I know he had broken into a car and stole some things. I got arrested and after 90 days was turned loose when they decided they didnt have anything on me. So for Bank of America I could prove I didn't have anything to do with what followed. My check card was in my belongings at the jail.
someone and we know who, called Bank of America, had my check card cancelled, got a new one issued with a new pin#. Also changed my address to their address. When the new card came and the letter which was found in her car, she went to the ATM's at Bank of America and cleaned out my account and overdrew my accounts. When I got released I discovered there was no money in my account. I didn't know what to do. Later my father said oh you have to get a lawyer to tell you what to do. so he used mine. My lawyer instructed me to go to the bank branch and file a claim. The local branch said you can't do that here, you have to call the claims dept. Didn't bother to give me the number either. So I call. The Bank of America claims dept says I will have to get a police report and file claims and prove I was in jail, did just that and mailed it back to them. Bank of America tried everything they could to try and get me to just drop it.The claims dept said I didn;t do the claims right and they didnt receive them after I sent them back registered mail and they signed for them, So I repeated the same process again.They barely gave me enough time to get them back, and this time I faxed them back from the local branch. Then the claims dept says they didnt receive them in time. I had the fax confirmation with me. Then they say oh ok we just found them. They finally gave me back my money and the district attorney says well since you got your money back then there is no crime. Bank of America has to now file a police report. I don't think they are so this person who stole my money could go free,. Not happening. I want this person prosecuted and she will be prosecuted. Bank of America doesn't want anyone to know what they did so they don't want this in court and get out to the news media. Well let me tell you, its going to be on the news. This woman who stole my money isn't the one who gave it back. My lawyer says we are going to sue Bank of America. He wants the news media and the whole country to know what they did and what they let happen. This is a Bank that we have now bailed out 2 times. And they do this sort of thing. I don't think so. My lawyer wants to make sure this does not happen to anyone else again and anyone else have to go thru what I did to get my money back.They lied to me and treated me like dirt. Harrassment and uncalled for actions on the banks part knowing they were in the wrong. They will prosecute the woman who stole my money or it will be all over the news. Diann Hall Is who stole my money, the bank knows, they have the videos and pictures off the cameras. They too know who did it. True the banks do have fraud and forgery insurance, they can also file a claim on that insurance and be repaid. The banks have become greedy feeding sharks and all they put their efforts into now days is making money, not the security of your money you have in deposit. Then they try and deny paying you back for their lousy security. Ha, they want you to give up on claims so they don't have to repay you back. The people who are responsible for taking your money should be prosecuted by Bank of America. They know who they are. Beleive me they know. They do not want publicity all over the country over how they protect your money.Well everyone is going to find out. I have already contacted the news. This story will be published. And for that matter Bank of America better prosecute this woman who took my money. I am waiting on my lawyer now to file suit. He will be asking for more than my money replaced but to reward me with damages for the harrassment and denial of repaying me plus his attorney fees. Banks have gotten by with way too much and screwed way too many people. Well let me tell you Bank of America will take your home in a heartbeat knowing the way the economy is and no jobs. Do they even care. No of course not. They only want your money, not a personal relationship with their customers. They could care less about you, jsut your money, thats all.

[ImABofAMgr]

Excuse me..what exactly are you going to sue the bank for, Einstein? You got your money back; the bank lost its money! Since you know who did it (and so does the bank, remember the ATM machines have cameras) why dont YOU help the bank and tell them who it is so they dont have to hunt. You got your money why should the bank lose its money--its not your Mom or Dad! And youre gonna go on the news and slander BofA for what? Because they gave you all your money?? HA HA, no WONDER you get in cars with felons!

Look SadSack...the bank has nearly 40 million customers, ok? If only 10% have debit card issues thats 4 millon customers and 4 millon faxes. When you fax somethign to claims its not a little fax machine in some corner that goes "whirrr" and spits out a fax some chick goes by and picks up--its FAX CENTRAL and it directs faxes to case workers creates images and yah they tell you it can take up to 48 hours for the fax to be received as documented, and if its not received or YOU did not do it on time, then, you have to rush and do it again before you get your money reversed.

But you know the bank gives you your money upfront and then asks you to give us the evidence and even if youre late and dont do it, and dont file it, and the claim gets denied for documentation, that does NOT mean youre out of luck! No way! Claims are reopened if all you were missing was "Stuff" the only difference is you only get that one time IMMEDIATE provisional credit one time--if the claim has to be reopened you MAY have to wait until the claim is resolved to get your money (MAY) sometimes you get it in two weeks as the claim is investigated

But bottom line, you got your money! Help the bank out and do your part--you GOT your money what the hell are you gonna sue for, and why? Just because you can and they have money to give you? Come on..dont be a jerk!

[xlovewaslovex]

People are so irational on this issue.
Why wouldnt you call the company if you noticed fraud.
First any and all fees would be refunded with out a fight - to the original poster
As long as the merchant refunded you.
You said why should the merchant loose out and thats why you wanted to talk to the bank instead
Why should the bank loose out?
In this situation you atttack the wrong people
You attack the people trying to help you
If google charged you falsely you should go after them
If the person who made the purchase knew your address, card number and security code
then its probably someone you know, or your husband lied to you and made the purchase
It could be fraud, and google could tell you more into like where the item is being shipped ect ip address
could be reported to the police so the criminal could be caught.
The bank tries to show fraud, if google states otherwise then its not fraud
and you just dont want to pay for something because it overdrew your account
people please use your head
stop yelling at the people that are helping you
bank of america didnt rob you for god sakes

[ImABofAMgr]

Well the fraud he is referring to may also include ATM fraud from what I read, or tried to read, its kind of hard with no breaks, LOL!

But even if the merchant didnt refund him, he can still dispute throught the Bank (which he did) and still get him money and fees back (which he did) so once again, what the HELL is he suing the bank for.

He seems to have delayed or not sent in his claim forms, or maybe he was right, maybe they couldnt find them the first time--gee 39 million customers, millions of faxes maybe one got lost, oh well! The person who takes your claim is not the person that gets the fax; the faxes go to CA or AZ were the investigators are, and the people that take your calls are in call centers around the country. They're not the ones that work your claim. Ok so even if the claim is denied to due lack of information, that claim can be reinitiated when you get the information in. The letter that you receive from ECS Claims tells you that! Do any of them read it, nope!

The letter clearly has the phone #s for ECS claims, do any of them see it, keep it, call it? Nope, they all remember and call Customer service while they are driving or in some public bathroom, cant even explain what they want when they call then waste the reps ICR metrics while he transfers them to the department. Ive listened to many calls where the rep asks them to read the letter and they "Read the friggin phone number" from CLAIMS yet the rep now MUST transfer them (required) to the number they just read out, and who gets dinged for transferring a customer--that rep!

Anyway all your comments are right on, but Im so pissed at the sheer "lack of intelligence" of most callers that I just have to vent!

[CathyG]

gee 39 million customers, millions of faxes maybe one got lost, oh well!

Valerie and Tundra - BoAMgr's comment above is the best evidence on Earth for breaking up the Too Big To Fail behemoths who have taking over the American banking system. He's saying sorry, we can't provide you with minimally acceptable levels of customer service because, gosh, we have 40 million other customers we're busy s c r e wing.

Keep after them and good luck in the good fight.

Im (sic) so pissed at the sheer "lack of intelligence" of most callers that I just have to vent!

Well, doesn't that just about say everything everyone needs to know re: the level of esteem in which BoA holds its customers?

[ImABofAMgr]

First of all...as you will not Ms CathyG (G for gargantuan lack of intelligence), I never addressed Valerie, I addressed the latest, Tundra...

Second of all yah one may get lost, but most of the time its not that its lost, its that it hasnt updated to the data base yet as received, since it can take up to 48 hours based on volume, but may one get lost--HELL YEAH, we dont live in your contrived, one sided Utopia, darlin--lief is real.

Seriously the more I deal with you the more you piss me off, but you wont take me down to your obsessive and gutteral level of one sided blindness--yeah it may get lost. This guy waited too damn long, got his provisional credit, saw his money in his account then decided to sit on his rear and not follow up! He got docked the provisional credit, resubmitted got his money back. You forget MsCathyG ("Gee for "arent I the smartest smartass in the victoria secret granny catalog)...

You forget he GOT HIS MONEY--what the hell kind of good fight do you want him to fight me CathyG--(G for Goofball)--he got his money and he's going to sue the bank because he didnt follow the REG E rules and he got his money only after he back tracked and did so?? He's gonna sue the bank because they took a loss and he got his money--right?

And yes the majority of customers that call have no clue of what is going on and if they used some brains and just did a self service feature, like "key in their access ID and Pin#" they let the reps deal with calls that had customers with real issues, not some remark like "I want to know what I gots on my card" translating to "what is the balance in my checking account" or like someone who called and said "I want to know how much I owe on my card this month" and got pissed cuz he got transferred to credit card services when he truly meant--"How much is my CHECKING (not checkings) but How much is my CHECKING account overdrawn..

Yeah when I took calls I got pissed but now when I take escalations the few times I do, I still am amazed at the lack of basic logic and the very primitive ackknowledgement of the fact that if you 10 and take away 12 youre minus 2..and that minus too may cost you $35.

Im not here to impress you, CathyG...enjoy the ride!

[CathyG]

Isn't it a little early in the afternoon to be drunk?

And FYI, I'm not a granny yet, though I'm looking forward to the day. I'm 54, my boys are 20 and 13 so it's really not time just yet.

[ImABofAMgr]

Oh well, late bloomer, huh? Well both my parents and my inlaws are in their 40s and grandparents--I guess the important thing is to become one, and enjoy it. Hope you enjoy being one when you are...